tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post3040183614683740615..comments2024-03-28T10:18:05.213+00:00Comments on Inventory Full: Puttering About In A Small Land : EQ2, GW2Bhagpusshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-37263535123541978802018-02-21T11:40:27.410+00:002018-02-21T11:40:27.410+00:00It's not without reason, that i considered the...It's not without reason, that i considered the targeting thing the main point. The rest can be discussed. You already noticed that there's many violations of "realism" in the game. <br /><br />And on giving everybody the very same toolset, no matter which class: yea. That might work, if you also supply a predefined set of underwater-perks and simplify stats for underwater. (So no matter if you run a power or condition based setup, your stats would be similar. The only difference might be between more health or more offense... ) <br /><br />But please also consider how it would feel: you remove basically 16 underwater weapons (more if you also consider Engineers kits), to replace it with one or two. The same happens with abilities. No matter which class a character is, under water it's the "underwater combat class". <br /><br />It does take some flavour out of the game. It is a cheap fix and will have a terribly smell of lazyness all around it. People won't really be happy. <br /><br />So maybe it's even better to have the broken system, and the faint hope that at some time they find the time to take a look at it and fix it, than to replace it with a cheap bland "everybody is the same" setup.Sylownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-59080026962897673242018-02-20T20:18:55.321+00:002018-02-20T20:18:55.321+00:00I stopped at the start of the tradeskill line myse...I stopped at the start of the tradeskill line myself only yesterday when I realised it seems to follow on from the end of the adventure timeline - spoilerific. Since I stalled before Christmas on that, I guess I need to go adventure first. Have been too busy in GW2 and ESO for the slower pace of this expansion but I will give it another go.<br /><br />As for underwater content I do enjoy it in all the games I've seen it in. Such a shame GW2 didn't maximise on the polished presentation they have. Swimming around the large pool in the Kormir Sanctum earlier was another reminder of this missed potential.<br /><br />I wonder if underwater content would be better received in other games if it were less friendly an environment? In GW2 there's no chance of drowning and next to no chance in WoW's larger experiments with such content. Maybe it's not different enough from land questing anymore (minus the Z-axis in combat)?Telwynhttp://gamingsf.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-29554481975877425762018-02-20T18:52:16.390+00:002018-02-20T18:52:16.390+00:00The practical issues with targeting - fair enough....The practical issues with targeting - fair enough. Just give everyone the same weapons and the same skills that are simple to balance and have done with it. Say we all use a spear under water and that's the end of it!<br /><br />As for "Realism", there we are, swimming around unencumbered in plate armor! It's hardly realistic now! For that matter, how do we glide or ride a mount or even walk not just in full plate armor but carrying six backpacks that could be full of another six suits of plate armor and two thousand chunks of iron ore? GW2, like most MMOs, has never been at home to Mr Realism.<br /><br />As for the flamethrower, if your armor is on fire on land it stays on fire underwater and as an Ele I get a full bar of fire spells underwater the same as on land. Also a dead issue since launch.<br /><br />None of these are problems that couldn't be solved and while players would complain, players already do complain - about everything. The point is that ANet have no interest in fixing the underwater content - they would rather just pretend none of it was there at all. When it comes to GW3 they probably won't have any water deeper than a paddling pool.<br />Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-27724755542027020942018-02-20T18:42:03.055+00:002018-02-20T18:42:03.055+00:00I'm used to the muffled sound now but it used ...I'm used to the muffled sound now but it used to make me think my computer wasn't working properly. I could do without the poor visibility though. Have you tried all the various underwater utility spells like the one that gives fish vision or the one that makes you walk along the bottom as though you were on land? Most of them make things harder rather than easier, I always found. Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-27483611672401602962018-02-20T17:51:13.831+00:002018-02-20T17:51:13.831+00:00It's not that easy.
One small problem would b...It's not that easy.<br /><br />One small problem would be some kind of "realism". My engineer preferably uses the flamethrower, my warrior uses the torch and relies a lot on fire damage. An underwater flamethrower is strongly stretching the barrier of disbelieve, no matter how often you say "magic", some people won't buy it. <br /><br />But the real problem is the third axis. A lot of weapons and abilities are ground targeted. Activate the ability, you move your target pointer, you click. Your mouse moves on two axes, you can move the target pointer on two axes, the ground defines the third axis.<br /><br />Now put that in water. You activate the ability. You move your pointer up or down. Does that now mean that you want the target area to be closer or futher away, or do you want it further up or down?<br /><br />That's the real obstacle they can't really tackle, as long as we play with keyboard and mouse. Sure they can come up with some crutch, but it wouldn't be comfortable gameplay.<br /><br />Ground based AoE effects could be changed into spheres, but ground targeted abilities would have to be eliminated and replaced. Unfortunately they also are often called "skillshots", so you can imagine how the community would react, if those would be removed from the game.<br /><br />So unfortunately it's by far not as easy as it might seem.<br />Sylownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-8069793423206784892018-02-20T17:39:57.393+00:002018-02-20T17:39:57.393+00:00I really like the way EQ2 handles underwater with ...I really like the way EQ2 handles underwater with the visual and sounds. I have had to deal with it differently with different characters but I found that realism really nice to deal with, in comparison with what I am used to.Iseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09489936780809266112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-47092275532335255792018-02-20T17:29:23.380+00:002018-02-20T17:29:23.380+00:00Or they could completely scrap the whole "dif...Or they could completely scrap the whole "different weapons and skills" idea and just use exactly the same weapons and skills for each class in each environment. We don't all get different skills and weapons to use in the jungle or the desert, after all. Why make a special case for underwater? Then the only significant difference between overland and underwater combat would be the extra use of the z-axis and that would be entirely down to player skill. <br /><br />Too late now. They made the entire game more complicated than either it needed to be or than they were capable of managing and now they - and we - are stuck with it.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-11793588108910441542018-02-20T15:55:25.844+00:002018-02-20T15:55:25.844+00:00"I would love an expansion that took place mo..."I would love an expansion that took place mostly underwater but it would be the end of the game. Even one new map in Living Story with major underwater content would create a riot. I don't really understand why so many people hate it but they do."<br /><br />As you wrote that while i was writing my comment, i'd like to answer that seperately, although it basically is included in my previous posting: Imagine you have a setup which handles everything outside of water perfectly fine, you can fight elites, veterans and champions and usually win. Then the game throws you into water, where even regular mobs suddenly take a while to defeat and take a chunk out of your health, with anything above that being a deadly threat. <br /><br />Of course, the first idea is to adapt. Now look at the Revenat as primary example: you only have one underwater weapon. So switching that one is not an option. You could change your legends... except, uh... most of them are not available when you are in water. <br /><br />So the moment your character enters water, the game gives you a very limited toolset, doesn't allow you to adopt, effectively often also disabling your traits, eliminating a lot of your survivability. All the same while the power level of content is balanced around working setups, which only a few classes actually have in water. So if you don't play one of the "lucky" classes, frustration is guaranteed. <br /><br />I know both sides of the coin. My Guardian, built around power, with a slightly uncommon but generally working setup, is lucky that the weapons work with the chosen attributes and all my selected abilities are useable in water. So it can handle monsters of equal difficulty on land and in water. But some others of my characters, while some of them feeling more powerful than my Guardian on land, struggle in water even the most simple mobs. <br /><br />Now imagine those people, who play one class exclusively or main one class, which got the badly short end of the stick here. They them entering water most of the time means nothing else than swimming to their death. <br /><br />In GW2 the mere selection of your class during character creation force you into a terrible setup, where every even so simply fight feels like an uhill battle and harder fights feel terribly unfair. Thus at least for me it's quite obvious, why players of the "wrong" classes hate anything with water in the game. Sylownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-18568871332719320222018-02-20T15:19:37.210+00:002018-02-20T15:19:37.210+00:00Aye. But unfortunately it would really require a l...Aye. But unfortunately it would really require a lot of work.<br /><br />I mean, i just have to look at the difference of my characters. On some, both underwater weapons fit to the stats my regular weapons want, the abilities find of fit and the setup still somehow works. <br /><br />For other classes, my underwater weapons suddenly are all condition damage, while my setup is power based (or vice versa), most of my normal abilities don't work under water and my traits do nothing any more.<br /><br />Prime examples would be my Revenant and Engineer. The revenant has two slots of underwater weapons, but only one type of underwater weapon exists for this class. Of all the legends i have, only two can actually be used in water, and of course those two i don't like to use.<br /><br />For my Engineer, it's all set up around using kits, but only one of the kits actually works under water, and that one doesn't even trigger the traits which keep my engineer alive. As a "bonus", most healing options of the Engineer also don't work in water.<br /><br />And that's just two examples, you could bring many more. There's just way too many "doesn't work in water" abilities all over all classes and too few underwater weapon choices. Getting all of that into working shape would be a massive undertaking. Considering how long it took them to even get some landbased abilities to useable shape, i wouldn't expect that to happen. <br /><br />It took over four years for the Guardian shield to get useable. After another year now, the spirit weapons finally were reworked in a way that i don't feel the urge to facepalm any more when i see a Guardian with one, but can at least hope that he knows what he's doing and might have a setup which makes them a halfway acceptable choice. This list can be continued freely and easily by anybody playing actively. There's still enough to be done on the regular land-based gamepay, which Anet focuses upon, so i guess getting underwater combat into good shape still will be "a little wait". :D<br />Sylownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-61476879444353413752018-02-20T15:19:15.227+00:002018-02-20T15:19:15.227+00:00I never even found the underwater movement sluggis...I never even found the underwater movement sluggish. Seems the same speed as on land to me. The skills do need a sanity pass - they vary wildly. Have they ever included underwater skills in a major balance patch?<br /><br />I would love an expansion that took place mostly underwater but it would be the end of the game. Even one new map in Living Story with major underwater content would create a riot. I don't really understand why so many people hate it but they do.<br /><br />(And I miss the big lake in Alpine Borderlands with the Quaggan and their weather machine too)Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-49191253942691985602018-02-20T14:04:23.160+00:002018-02-20T14:04:23.160+00:00GW2’s ignoring of underwater scapes and combat is ...GW2’s ignoring of underwater scapes and combat is truly tragic - my mind kept being blown every time I wandered underwater, from little freshwater pools and rivers with aquatic weed hiding secret cave entrances, to plunging underwater in Lion’s Arch and Mount Maelstrom to see old historical ruins and especially bits of Mount Maelstrom and Frostgorge Sound which went super-deep and had different fauna living in different layers... and the colors, like a rainbow everywhere, showing off the possible realistic variation of underwaterscapes, mixed with a touch of fantasy.<br /><br />What’s needed is to speed up the movement slightly, to make swimming feel less molasses, and add more new weapons and skills, and it would be great, imo.Jeromaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02206083433625986970noreply@blogger.com