tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post4913212982671552957..comments2024-03-28T10:18:05.213+00:00Comments on Inventory Full: More Than Shooters, More Than LootersBhagpusshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-90395063050245939112019-03-16T22:05:55.532+00:002019-03-16T22:05:55.532+00:00The measure of a 'good' loot system in bot...The measure of a 'good' loot system in both the ARPG and the Looter-Shooter sub-genre isn't just the rate of loot drops, rather that is a contributing factor toward the actual measure:<br /><br />To what extent can I create/supplement new playstyles through the loot on offer.<br /><br />The most basic (and yet still very powerful, when done right) implementation of this is through Set Gear. Being able to mix and match different levels of different sets (6-piece bonus of one, 2-piece of another, or 4 and 4, etc) helps.<br /><br />But then mixed into this is ideally other one-off effects and even just interesting basic stat and gearing options besides.<br /><br />In essence, not just hunting down the singular 'BiS' options we frequently see for a given spec in the MMO space, but rather designing a gameplay idea and then chasing it down.<br /><br />It is that chase and being able to experiment the interplay between the gearing and the skills that provides the longevity.<br /><br />And it is also here that the rate of loot becomes an interesting function of the game. Too low and chasing down a singular given build or playstyle idea becomes an exercise in futility and frustration. <br /><br />After you get here, then it becomes about optimisation and being all you can be through the gear and stat options you have.<br /><br />Anthem is an interesting case here though, as it simply does not have the item diversity required to support the first type of fun in play I talked to. The loot chase solely revolves around the second aspect - optimisation. <br /><br />Same issues around rate of loot exist here, but with a whole missing layer, there isn't any sort of 'bonus' win available in starting a gear set for a second style of play that you might be interested in playing later.<br /><br />It's either better, or it isn't. And most of the time it isn't. And that isn't very fun for long, especially if the rate of loot is low.Naithinhttps://www.timetoloot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-43977038818954159752019-03-16T21:22:00.301+00:002019-03-16T21:22:00.301+00:00I'm the same way. I did enjoy playing Diablo 3...I'm the same way. I did enjoy playing Diablo 3, but it quickly became repetitive and I felt like I was wasting my life.Alex Barberihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02873846130807963228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-32968465129985810802019-03-16T20:37:20.545+00:002019-03-16T20:37:20.545+00:00It's an interesting psychological point. Clear...It's an interesting psychological point. Clearly you're right or the games wouldn't be as successful as they are. It has precisely the opposite effect on me though, negatively re-inforcing some underlying doubt I must have about whether I should be spending my time playing the game at all.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-76926927184252590902019-03-16T20:07:54.616+00:002019-03-16T20:07:54.616+00:00Tons of loot dropping in games like Diablo, for ex...Tons of loot dropping in games like Diablo, for example, is all about positive reinforcement. Some people need/want positive reinforcement quickly. So in games where a lot of loot drops, they get a lot of positive reinforcement for doing the same things over and over (which keeps them playing for a while).Alex Barberihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02873846130807963228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-65767359750978162912019-03-16T17:59:25.641+00:002019-03-16T17:59:25.641+00:00I don't recognize much of that from my experie...I don't recognize much of that from my experience of either ARPGs or MMORPGs. Not that I really have any experience of the former - I quit right at the start because the whole thing seemed so ridiculous and not fun. On MMORPGs, though, I generally find the loot is meaningful and the drop rate there or thereabouts satisfying. <br /><br />Take EQ2, for example: leveling up from 1 to 100 there's a constant feed of good upgrades, many of which make a substantive difference. The main problem there, as with many MMOs, is that over time the speed of leveling has accelerated to the point that it's often difficult to appreciate the upgrades before they are in turn upgraded. That's not a flaw in the original design, though, just in the way the power curve operates in an aging game. One of the main appeals of Progression Servers is the way they bring back the concept of the meaningful upgrade.<br /><br />Your ideal item drop system sounds remarkably close to how loot worked in original EQ. When people talk about the long camps back then, the reason they were willing to spend hours, days or even weeks of their lives sitting in one spot waiting was that when the mob finally a) spwaned and b) dropped the item (neither always either certain or even predictable), taking possession of that item would significantly change gameplay. EQ used to run on the concept of game-changing items that were very rare or time-consuming to obtain but over time that became perceived as one of the game's (and the genre's) weak spots, which is how we go to where we are now. Personally I think there's a sweet spot somewhere between the two extremes.<br /><br />As for story, I literally cannot remember ever playing through any storyline in any online multiplayer game that came up even to the standard of a very run-of-the-mill genre novel. Mostly the quality doesn't even begin to approach that level. For comparison, I'm currently working my way through Buffy the Vampire Slayer on Amazon Prime; I just got to Season 5. Buffy is a genre fantasy tv show aimed at a young adult audience and broadcast on primetime network tv - a low bar by any standards - but compared to most video games I've ever played - on or offline - the narrative, dialog and acting might as well be Shakespeare at the RSC! It's not that I wouldn't love my video games to tell stories that good, that well, but so far they just don't. Maybe that will change eventually but it's been a very long wait so far...Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-58705991154420038172019-03-16T17:09:19.498+00:002019-03-16T17:09:19.498+00:00Conversely I love ARPGs and their ilk. On reflecti...Conversely I love ARPGs and their ilk. On reflection though, ironically, the loot is my least favourite thing about them. A lot of people seem to view the deluge of loot as the main appeal, but I can't imagine relating to a game in such a shallow way. <br /><br />I just hate loot as a mechanic in general, though. At least in ARPGs, it tends to be more rewarding than in MMORPGs. You spend hours grinding for loot, but you get lots of incremental upgrades on the way, and there's a chance of finding items that alter or enhance your character in exciting and dramatic ways. In MMOs, you spend hours grinding for loot, probably don't get anything useful at all except maybe once a week if you're lucky, and even when you do get something useful it's just a meaningless numbers boost that offers no excitement at all. And if you aren't lucky with drops, enjoying being locked out of the story altogether!<br /><br />If I had my way, item drops would be very rare, and serve only as an element of character customization. One sword might boost haste, and another crit, but they're roughly even in power, and which one you prefer depends on your build. That's my ideal.<br /><br />Anyway, getting back to ARPGs, it's the gameplay and not the loot that appeals to me. I love how fast-paced and visceral the combat tends to be. Some of them also have pretty good stories.<br /><br />I could also say something about how overblown the furor over Anthem's loot is, and how the game is actually pretty excellent, but that's a topic for another day.Tyler Edwardshttps://superior-realities.com/noreply@blogger.com