tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post242193973143160438..comments2024-03-28T10:18:05.213+00:00Comments on Inventory Full: Moral Relativism: WoW ClassicBhagpusshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-86768053674207996482019-10-11T19:57:40.722+01:002019-10-11T19:57:40.722+01:00Heh! If you go into a crowded pub and start yellin...Heh! If you go into a crowded pub and start yelling your opinions for everyone to hear you can expect some pretty lively feedback. In this corner of the blogosphere it's more like murmuring under your breath at the vicarage garden party :PBhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-52554250765444684332019-10-11T18:14:15.087+01:002019-10-11T18:14:15.087+01:00Sorry by calling you out I meant to refer to your ...Sorry by calling you out I meant to refer to your comment that you would get pelters if you posted this on twitter. Sorry I wasn't very clear. Sootyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218431999395698542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-86746726531706423272019-10-11T17:23:31.544+01:002019-10-11T17:23:31.544+01:00Well, so far no-one really has called me out for c...Well, so far no-one really has called me out for carrying on playing WoW. It's one of a number of MMORPGs I play and, as I said, there are lines that a company could cross that would make me too uncomfortable to carry on playing but this isn't one of them.<br /><br />I was just reading something on the BBC website that mentions both Google and Apple have recently pulled apps due to issues relating to Hong Kong. There was an op-ed piece on Gamesindustry.biz today that makes a good case for how this is just the beginning of a major problem for games companies that's not going to go away any time soon. How far into it bloggers are going to want to go is going to be interesting to see. It could all go a bit Gamergate and that saw several bloggers I followed drop out of blogging altogether.<br /><br />Edited because I managed to mispell Hong Kong!Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-39689750541261298632019-10-11T14:41:12.935+01:002019-10-11T14:41:12.935+01:00Bhagpuss I applaud you mate. No one has the right ... Bhagpuss I applaud you mate. No one has the right to tell you or call you out for playing Blizzard games. Ng Wai Chung decided to (as is his right) to bring attention to the plight of Hong Kong. I don't have to agree with him. I don't have to support him as this is my right. I do however think the situation is appalling and applaud him too for his bravery. Other people saying we should do x and y because they think we should is just utter self entitled rubbish. I will carry on playing Wow, I won't worry if Blizzard do this again and again as it ISN'T something I can influence nor would I want to and because I feel this way I should not be told I'm an awful person etc. End of rant. Peace Out. Sootyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218431999395698542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-62336109168657417732019-10-10T17:16:54.263+01:002019-10-10T17:16:54.263+01:00Politicians and those who are politically active, ...Politicians and those who are politically active, choose to be in that arena because they have a vested interest in serving their constituents. <br /><br />Corporations and business entities have historically served this process by throwing their support, monetarily or otherwise(voting), behind candidates as the method to show support of a candidate's ideologies in an attempt to get them elected. Today, corporations are resorting to strong arm tactics to force their employees, and others under their scope of control, to become soldiers in their army of agenda driven influence. People are being fired and lives are being ruined because someone holds a particular belief. <br /><br />By law, an employer cannot discriminate during the hiring process by discriminating against a person based on matters of race, age, religious or political affiliation. So how in the hell can an employer get away with terminating someone when the employees personal beliefs don't fall in line with some "unspoken" rule that magically exists in the head of someone at the corporate level?<br /><br />It encourages the worst trait of corporate behavior - tyranny.<br /><br />Shame on Blizzard.NoGuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13966147799127561336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-74263906540173123932019-10-10T15:36:25.412+01:002019-10-10T15:36:25.412+01:00In the UK, we went through a prolonged period when...In the UK, we went through a prolonged period when the perceived problem was a lack of difference between the poilitical parties and an absence of distinctive, polarized views. I clearly remember the narrative in the media over several years focusing on the way the blandness of political discourse and politicians' almost universal refusal to engage in meaningful discussion on matters of principle was turning an entore generation off of politics and laying down problems for the entire political process. The frequently repearted wish was for more "characters" in poitics and more people standing up for their beliefs rather than competing over who were the better "managers".<br /><br />Fast forward a few years a few years and that sounds like a golden age of toplerance and rationality. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for!<br /><br />Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-80395083897256474352019-10-10T13:28:54.013+01:002019-10-10T13:28:54.013+01:00Those of us who choose to stick to our guns(so to ...Those of us who choose to stick to our guns(so to speak) have seen this coming for a long time now. Polarizing issues, coupled with political correctness and grandstanding, are slowly eroding a large part of an individuals ability to have any kind of chance of being in the "middle" on any issue as corporations, media, celebrity and state governments are actively involved with the enforcement of the most "correct" and preferred ideologies. Everything that is being done is causing "lines in the sand" to be drawn right down the middle of the political spectrum in a "you're either with us, or against us" mechanism that continues to polarize people globally.<br /><br />The situation with Blizzard is just another sign of the times, from a loosely applied prophetic standpoint, and should come as no surprise to anyone paying attention.<br /><br />Sometimes a statue is just a statue. Those who attribute any more to it than that are the real enemy, because at that point it becomes a symbol. One that certain people will feel compelled to attack.NoGuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13966147799127561336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-13265231307973581032019-10-10T09:41:14.815+01:002019-10-10T09:41:14.815+01:00It is grindy, there's no denying it. I prefer ...It is grindy, there's no denying it. I prefer grinding to questing though, so it suits me.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-42226824543759057292019-10-10T06:26:31.138+01:002019-10-10T06:26:31.138+01:00Hong Kong was never free. Under the British, Hong...Hong Kong was never free. Under the British, Hong Kong was corrupt and oppressive with serious Gestapo operations by the Brits. China moved in and is leveraging those old corrupt systems for themselves. This is a very complex issue. There is no question that China should have never lost Hong Kong but if the people as a whole want to be their own independent nation then that should be their choice. That is not entirely clear as there is some US intelligence agency involvement and financial support of some of these protest groups. The average Hong Kong person may feel differently. Either way, it is a lost cause. The corrupt systems of the British were never uprooted with their departure and run deep. Hong Kong is important only for the symbolism (Shanghai is their financial jewel for the future). If they release Hong Kong, there goes Taiwan. That the Chinese cannot afford. Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377005509866420932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-72625322123709304452019-10-09T18:12:56.974+01:002019-10-09T18:12:56.974+01:00I was thinking about Blizzcon myself. I can easily...I was thinking about Blizzcon myself. I can easily imagine chaos erupting if people start spontaneously shouting pro-Hong Kong slogans during the Keynote, for instance. And if Blizz thinks that won't happen, they're sadly mistaken.<br />Redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-38796523895991247562019-10-09T17:36:19.422+01:002019-10-09T17:36:19.422+01:00I'd been thinking about unsubbing anyway: WoW ...I'd been thinking about unsubbing anyway: WoW was getting too grindy per unit fun as I got into the 20s. Blizzard just made it easy.PO8noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-4696829079539684692019-10-09T17:23:16.492+01:002019-10-09T17:23:16.492+01:00I hadn't thought of that. Just shows how compl...I hadn't thought of that. Just shows how complicated the whole thing is. I would have said (did say, somewhere) that Blizard's best response would have been to ignore the entire incident and let it fade but it hadn't occured to me they might have had a call from China suggesting that wouldn't be good enough. <br /><br />If they made their choice as a direct response to Chinese governmental prompting that puts a different complexion on matters. I wonder if they'll clarify the exact sequence of events? I bet they won't. Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-24224692700175263772019-10-09T16:47:51.461+01:002019-10-09T16:47:51.461+01:00I am not sure how much Blizz actually got to simme...I am not sure how much Blizz actually got to simmer on this. We don't have an internal view or a timeline. Blizz may have just let it pass only to have the Chinese government pop in later and begin telling them what they needed to do and how quickly they needed to do it, which is just the sort of thing you get when you do deals with dictators. Of course, in the end, Blizz did what they did, made their choice to look good for the Chinese government without due consideration as to how they would look at home. <br /><br />I remain on the lookout for some reaction from Blizz.Wilhelm Arcturushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033496821708933394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-6373172353795727712019-10-09T16:24:05.675+01:002019-10-09T16:24:05.675+01:00That's very much my take on the affair as it s...That's very much my take on the affair as it stands at the moment. I chose to react somewhat emotionally, although the way I expressed myself may not suggest it, because although knocks against freedom of speech don't tend to press my buttons, knee-jerk reactions to such things often do. <br /><br />If I'd left it to simmer a bit longer I'd have come out with more of a considered respnse to the longer-term implications of Blizzard's incompetent handling of the incident rather than a run-down of my well-rehearsed objections to certain kinds of public protest. <br /><br />There is, as you suggest, a deep well of political ill-will towards China bubbling under the surface just waiting to be tapped and even corporate giants could find themselves being swept away if they're unwise enough to open the floodgates. I was thinking of the U.S. election timetable, too. China could be a big issue there although possibly Trump has enough on his plate already with Russia and The Ukraine...<br /><br />I do think the discussion in the comments above about the timescales involved is key. This wasn't a spur of the moment panic decision by an overwhelmed junior staffer. It's Blizzard's version of a considered, measured response and it took them several days to come up with it. That they've managed to misjudge the room so badly after taking that long to think about it is perhaps the most worrying part.<br /><br />I can't see an easy way out of it for them. Like SynCaine said in his post, they're going to have to pick a side and stick with it. They aren't going to be able to keep everyone happy. Blizzcon is indeed going to be interesting.<br /><br />Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-23072388259642079972019-10-09T15:42:15.071+01:002019-10-09T15:42:15.071+01:00I am annoyed by Blizzard's move. Nothing like ...I am annoyed by Blizzard's move. Nothing like publicly making a mockery of the corporate values you were so proud of that you cast them in metal and put the in front of your building. And I also wonder how they justify cutting off the contracts of the two stream casters who didn't know what was going to be said. I'm waiting to see if they will try to walk this back. BlizzCon will be tumultuous if they do not.<br /><br />I'm also worried that Blizz won't be able to control this or walk it back even if they want to and that it will become a hammer with which to beat them here in the US for a long time. The timing of this could hardly be worse. A presidential election is about a year away and there is no doubt the candidates will make hay about this. <br /><br />Trump, long on about China, ordered all US companies to stop doing business in China back in late August. A lot of people laughed that off. But now Blizz and the NBA have both stepped in it and will no doubt become examples in the Fox news rhetoric. Meanwhile the leading opposition candidates are down on big tech and, while they are after Google and Facebook mostly, I am sure Blizz will make an easy target. Add in the faction that blames gun violence on video games and the simmering lootbox issue, and Blizz could be in for very rough times. Oh, and then there was last week's episode of South Park, "Band in China" that went all in about submitting to censorship in order to get paid was a horrible moral compromise. This is beyond even Daybreak/SOE levels of bad timing.<br /><br />But this is what happens when you deal with dictatorships, which are as a rule thin skinned and capricious. I would walk with care defending any freedom from being offended, because people will find offense in everything. Hate speech is a chimera, impossible to pin down, so ends up as an attempt to enforce a particular point of view which often happens to align perfectly with the government's view on the matter.<br /><br />As to liberty for Hong Kong, that is a lost cause. The only reason that tanks haven't rolled to crush the protestors is because China doesn't want to put off getting Taiwan back the fold by another 50 years. China is still angry about having their long standing empire taken from them for a short stretch and they won't rest until they get it all back and then some.<br />Wilhelm Arcturushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033496821708933394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-22045641340136592382019-10-09T15:20:54.398+01:002019-10-09T15:20:54.398+01:00The NBA was mentioned in several of the articles I...The NBA was mentioned in several of the articles I read on the Blizzard situation. There are going to be plenty more stories like this in the months ahead, I'm sure. Companies that want to walk this line are going to have to work out better strategies for avoiding media firestorms. Not sure how many of them will be competent to do that.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-56496356692177667612019-10-09T13:29:07.775+01:002019-10-09T13:29:07.775+01:00Out of objectivity, I went to go look for the time...Out of objectivity, I went to go look for the times. Apparently, the incident happened Sunday, and Blizzard posted Tuesday.<br /><br />https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/hearthstone/23179289/hearthstone-grandmasters-asia-pacific-ruling<br /><br />So I take back what I said earlier. They had plenty of business time to formulate and draft a PR reply. The official announcement is actually fairly innocuous. <br /><br />The penalty is still a little drastic, especially with the two casters statement thrown in like an afterthought, without explanation on why and how they reached those conclusions. The media jumped on it and spun the reporting really well.<br /><br />Sucks to be Blizzard at the moment. Sometimes I guess it's just wrong time, wrong place for making any kind of decision too.Jeromaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02206083433625986970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-84117563687331721352019-10-09T13:26:54.359+01:002019-10-09T13:26:54.359+01:00The timing of this makes me wonder if it has to do...The timing of this makes me wonder if it has to do with China's reaction to a tweet an NBA owner made:<br />https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-state-broadcaster-drops-two-nba-games-11570522782Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01876589555069743292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-1117201866630149832019-10-09T12:55:58.021+01:002019-10-09T12:55:58.021+01:00"even as I question some of the more rabid an..."even as I question some of the more rabid anti-Chinese messaging agenda"<br /><br />Some of it (a lot of it, perhaps) seems to be Americans assuming their moral/cultural/societal standards are universal. Some of it is undoubtedly bots and trolls jumping on the bandwagon to sow discontent.caerphotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126464462656422279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-78403079940892554852019-10-09T12:54:49.157+01:002019-10-09T12:54:49.157+01:00I have to say I was thinking exactly that as I was...I have to say I was thinking exactly that as I was writing the post. Only yesterday I was pontificating at Mrs Bhagpuss as we drove home about the likelihood of most political decisions being the result of incompetence rather than evil intent. People in general make mistakes far more easily than they carry out cunning plans.<br /><br />Then I thought about it and wondered, given the nature of the incident and the sanctions imposed, whether a low-level employee would have had the authority. I have no knowledge of how Blizzard's moderation process operates but I would have thought this would have needed to be flagged up to some relatively senior level before action was taken.<br /><br />I also didn't check what the time-lapse between the protest and the sanction was. If it was minutes then it wil be incompetence. If it was hours then possibly not. Also, it raises the question of how deniable this all is. If it was a junior employee acting rashly that opens the door wide for a retraction and a "change of heart". We'd have had that already if they were going that route, I'd have thought. The longer they leave it, the more authority they give the decision and the harder it wil be to overturn it, should they want to do so.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-41929330226680992892019-10-09T12:47:13.478+01:002019-10-09T12:47:13.478+01:00There's probably a reason I don't use redd...There's probably a reason I don't use reddit or Twitter. I've been a moral relativist since I was a student and it's a guaranteed way to start an argument - or a fist-fight.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-7135741195422547002019-10-09T12:44:18.576+01:002019-10-09T12:44:18.576+01:00I think you’re crediting Blizzard with way too muc...I think you’re crediting Blizzard with way too much sense. Since when does anyone generate profit-loss projections before making a decision? <br /><br />It was probably “OMG what did he just do?! Kill it, kill the streams. What can we do about this? Well, boss, we do have this code of conduct he just broke. Oh, ok, excellent, we’re within our legal rights to cut ties with him... go ahead and announce that.”<br /><br />*a couple hours and some media posts later* oh. F—k.<br /><br />From a personal standpoint, I’d love to join the side of democracy and freedom of speech as well - even as I question some of the more rabid anti-Chinese messaging agenda - but as I don’t actually play any Blizzard games from the get go, all I can do is munch popcorn from the sidelines.<br />Jeromaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02206083433625986970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-39650572250494193192019-10-09T12:43:50.274+01:002019-10-09T12:43:50.274+01:00Well, I'm not suggesting anyone shuts up. Peop...Well, I'm not suggesting anyone shuts up. People should do what makes them feel most comfortable, which includes expressing their feelings in whatever channels they find appropriate. That's what I just did. If I was genuinely uninterested in the whole thing I wouldn't have commented at all. <br /><br />I read all the posts and a lot of the surrounding material and much of it was very interesting. I already had a general background on the Hong Kong situation but I know more about it now than I did a few hours ago as a result of this publicity. In that respect the intent of the protestor has been well served. I just don't believe me not paying a video game is going to affect the outcome of that situation one iota.<br /><br />The general backlash may have some effect on Blizard, though. It has on some companies in the past, although as I said it's usually loss of advertizing revenue that does the job. I don't think Blizzard is vulnerable to that. But we'll see how it turns out. Maybe Blizzard will recant. If so it will show just how much financial damage can be inflicted through wallet power. I wouldn't take it to mean that the company, as an entity, has had a change of heart.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-38102067369530228782019-10-09T12:42:24.430+01:002019-10-09T12:42:24.430+01:00"I am very much not in favor of the so-called..."I am very much not in favor of the so-called “right to offend”. It’s my feeling that there’s a very great difference between the invaluable existence of the kind of “freedom of the press” that existed in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and a general free-for-all, where anyone can express any damn thing they please regardless of the effect is has on those who listen."<br /><br />Ah man, I can just imagine if you said something like this on Reddit you'd be crucified.<br /><br />I agree with you, mind.caerphotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126464462656422279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-49389922868290350172019-10-09T12:26:17.125+01:002019-10-09T12:26:17.125+01:00So in short: "all you guys shut up and let me...So in short: "all you guys shut up and let me play my game, I don't care what Blizzard does"? Apart from the endless justifications and rationalizations you provided, is there really any other meaning?Helistarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01435861741164342377noreply@blogger.com