tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post3501836126074404079..comments2024-03-28T10:18:05.213+00:00Comments on Inventory Full: (Another) Another WorldBhagpusshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-640845746989706762021-05-19T19:45:06.993+01:002021-05-19T19:45:06.993+01:00This is the challenge. As much as I like a game w...This is the challenge. As much as I like a game world like Valheim or Minecraft, they definitely feel a empty when other players are no longer there and their bases become ghost towns.<br /><br />One thing I experimented with in Minecraft was building a base which we populated with villagers who went about their business in the base and gave life to the place (as well as serving as convenient vendors for various needed items).<br /><br />I think it would be very interesting if some of these games adopted a bit more of a simcity/minecraft villager paradigm whereby player-built infrastructure attracted NPC mob elements so that even if the players left the world, what they left behind is still a (somewhat) living breathing piece of the game rather than a ghost town artifact...potshothttp://potshot.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-46168763708145617672021-05-19T18:26:01.285+01:002021-05-19T18:26:01.285+01:00The whole genre doen't really work unless quit...The whole genre doen't really work unless quite a lot of people stick with individual games for long periods. Years, probably. Which, by and large, they do. That then creates a whole different set of problems, of course. I tend to agree with the view that a month's solid entertainment is a clear mark of success for a game but that's a success for me as a consumer. For the producer, the problem with mmorpgs is that they're supposed to last for years. It's not as though the company can sign off on the game when it launches and move on to the next project. If players are only going to hang around for a month or so... well, they're going to need to keep finding new players at a consistent rate to replace them and that's clearly going to get harder and harder to do as the game stops being new. <br /><br />Tobold's point on virtual worlds is, I think, feeding directly off what some big-name developers keep trying to tell us, which is that virtual worlds have some kind of morally significant purpose much larger and more meaningful than anything the industry has yet achieved. The worlds they describe are the kind of places they expect we would want to spend almost all our time in. It's the pitch we've been hearing at least since Second Life, the "game" that embodied the very essence of the concept in its name. I'm not sure many players ever really wanted that (I know from personal testimony I've seen that some did - and do) but I think it remains a tenet of faith with a core cadre of zealous devs.<br /><br /><br />Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-24338535219080591342021-05-19T17:10:31.486+01:002021-05-19T17:10:31.486+01:00The part of Tobold's post that you quote struc...The part of Tobold's post that you quote struck me as odd. I don't think a compelling virtual world requires that we spend anything like 24 hours a day there. If the design of something requires you to spend more than a few hours a session to make good progress, I would argue it's at least bordering on being something other than a game. That was one of the things that really turned me off about launch era EQ, the time investment to get to the cap back then was absurd. <br /><br />As for the other part, the expectation that games hold our 100% of our gaming attention for years on end...I can't believe some people are still wanting to measure worth using that yardstick. I don't understand why MMOs get held to a completely different standard than every other type of game. If I get at least a solid month of entertainment out of a game, to me it's a really good game. Most games I <br />try I am done with before I hit the one hour mark. Just because something happens to be online and have other players running around does't mean that I have to play it for six solid years or it's somehow a terrible game. That expectation is a big part of what is wrong with MMO "fandom" in my mind. No genre can flourish with those kinds of (frankly insane) expectations on every new game. Yeebohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08028940396189544294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-69562480976563080302021-05-19T12:09:07.476+01:002021-05-19T12:09:07.476+01:00Reminds me a lot of Landmark. People like to bemoa...Reminds me a lot of Landmark. People like to bemoan the loss of that "game", particularly in context of all the truly spectacular creativity that flourished there. Some of the things people built were hard to believe even when you were in game looking at them.<br /><br />What those people always seem to skate over is the plain fact that once players had built those structures they were done. Interest persisted for as long as people found the process involving but after that there was nothing to keep them there. Long before the servers closed down the entire game was a ghost town. It was a fascinatiing, eerie, wonderful ghost town but there was no-one there to see it.<br /><br />I've read enough blog posts about Minecraft and Wurm Online to know that plenty of people love to design and build their dream home but very few want to stay and live in it.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-19663662403330782552021-05-19T11:57:01.637+01:002021-05-19T11:57:01.637+01:00Weirdly, I think the mmorpg I've now played th...Weirdly, I think the mmorpg I've now played the most consistently and for the longest must be GW2. I've played other games, particularly the two EQ titles, for much longer overall but I've played GW2 without any breaks for almost nine years now and I still play literally every day.<br /><br />I do like the persistence of mmorpgs, the way they're always there and you can always log in and do the same things you've always done. In the end I think that counts for a good deal more than the initial, overwhelming obsession.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-39759291884638900122021-05-19T11:47:57.391+01:002021-05-19T11:47:57.391+01:00Great call on NWN. It brings together a whole lot ...Great call on NWN. It brings together a whole lot of elements of this story - creative tools, platform, distribution and marketing, social media, pre-made content, virtual worlds - all in a single package. It makes me nervous, imagining what an updated, fully-functioning version of NWN might be like. Then again, if one happened to come out right around when I retire, which is only about three or four years from now, I might be in exactly the right place to make the most of it.<br /><br />The problem with NWN, though, is the problem with all these things: there really is no quick,easy way to make deep, involving, compelling worlds, whether that's in prose fiction, video or virtual worlds. It takes huge bites out of your life and if the plan is to keep on doing it then it becomes your life. YOu really have to want that and while I probably did when I was in my 20s I'm not convinced I do any more. I lost a summer to NWN when it first came out and when I finally shook free of it I wasn't at all sure I'd spent my time well. I'm still not.<br /><br />The older I get, the more I feel this is something I might have enjoyed doing as paid employment but I'm less and less convinced it's a way I'd ever want to spend my own free time. I think I'd rather funnel my creativity into something that gives more concentrated and finite results in a much shorter timeframe. Blogging really suits me in that way. I'm very happy for other people to embark on these huge, sprawling, open-ended projects and share the results but I want to be the audience not the producer.Bhagpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499162165023939880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-65032046740889355662021-05-19T04:11:40.032+01:002021-05-19T04:11:40.032+01:00I think more than anything else the Holodeck kille...I think more than anything else the Holodeck killed the Star Trek franchise for me. So lazy, so pointless, so obviously just an amusement for the writers while rarely if ever being amusing for the viewers.<br /><br />Around 1987 I set up a TinyMud instance at my small (1200-student) private college. There was an explosion of building by the students; the whiteboards of Terminal Ward instantly filled with a map of the new world they were creating. Bots were built. Locations were established.<br /><br />Two weeks later it emptied just as suddenly. Folks had reached the limits of interest in the place. It became a ghost world, with only the bots for company.<br /><br />That was fun to do and amazing to observe. I can't help but feel it might be relevant somehow.Bart Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10490373418825679148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-50343346478493150212021-05-19T01:45:31.536+01:002021-05-19T01:45:31.536+01:00Well, I guess, a lot of the people placing these e...Well, I guess, a lot of the people placing these expectations on an upcoming game DO have experience of a single game not only dominating their gaming, but dominating their life, for years on end. I know I spent literally years playing no game other than WoW, and spending most of my leisure time on that WoW-playing.<br /><br />I don't actually want that anymore. But I assume some people do, and having experienced it before, I can see why they would demand it from future games, unlikely though they may be to deliver.Carson 63000https://www.blogger.com/profile/10900682924502279486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1510920011443550663.post-15959009783820245462021-05-19T00:59:23.763+01:002021-05-19T00:59:23.763+01:00I've viewed the Lightforge news so far through...I've viewed the Lightforge news so far through a bit of a raised brow at first, and then a sigh. Still- if we throw to the wayside reservation and doubt for the time being, what I want?<br /><br />Neverwinter Nights -- not the MMO version still running today, but the standalone Bioware title that came with it an incredible tool for creation of stories that gave life to NWN for years past the time it otherwise would've been good for. (There was also the whole Dungeon Master client to add even more dynamism to the game if you had a DM, but even the base tools were amazing this aside!)<br /><br />NWN was ultimately shoehorned into allowing for MMO-like experiences which was great, but I'd happily accept a revamp of this with small-group multiplayer.<br /><br />I had a number of successful projects under NWN, even had some stuff hosted on IGN's NWVault back when that was a thing! <br /><br />NWN did last me years upon years too -- as it did for much of the community. Expansions for it were less about the story campaign they came with (although they certainly beat the pants off the game's original campaign) -- and more about the new tilesets, creatures, class and general 'tools' that could be used to build with. <br /><br />So I don't really think it was the 'game' that lasted for years upon years, but the platform.<br /><br />If Lightforge can strike something like this... Well; it will take my breath away. Of course, it's hard to tell if this is even remotely close to what they're aiming for just yet. So I guess we'll see!<br /><br />Also on the topic of expectations for games to last: I agree with you, and a shot at limited-duration enjoyment is all I (typically) do expect out of games. Even MMOs. Belghast posted... earlier in the year? Possibly last year even? Around the concept of the 'forever game' and abandoning the search for one which resonated strongly for me as I'd felt the same but hand't articulated it quite as such.<br /><br />Even so... I understand how it can happen. Games capture the imagination which is both brilliant and terrible. It's how the hype trains behind so many games get started. Sometimes fed unreasonably by the developers (or their marketers), but sometimes driven solely by the imagination of those interested.<br /><br />Like my projection of a possibility of an NWN-rebirth onto a shaky announcement void of detail re: Lightforge. Of course, this time, I know that's the case.<br /><br />But that isn't always so. Case in point: Anthem -- although at least on the plus side for that one, it brought me back to this community. :)Naithinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830174305806727004noreply@blogger.com