Friday, November 14, 2025

It's Real If I Say It's Real


Yeebo
dropped by the comment thread on the last post I wrote about Blue Protocol: Star Resonance, to mention how he'd started playing Honkai Star Rail a while back and was somewhat enjoying it, until he spotted a sale on Neir: Automata, which he'd heard described as "one of the best games ever created by humans". And that was it for his time with HSR.

That got me thinking about a lot of things, some of which came up in my reply, like how I really never get on with the combat in Honkai Star Rail and how any combat that isn't really easy puts me right off any game these days. Then I got to thinking about my gaming habits in general and how they've changed, both over the whole of my life and more specifically in the last few years.

I was going to write something quite specifically related to that today but then before I got down to it, I read this article at NME about a large-scale survey commissioned by French music streaming platform Deezer to find out if listeners really can tell the difference between music made by AI and music made by humans. And this one at GamesIndustry about the absence of player pushback over the use of AI in mobile games. And this one from the same source about Nexon suggesting everyone should assume every game company is using AI...

All of which made me think even more. Which is why this post is all over the place. I'm still thinking. But I have to start somewhere...

Let's begin with the shift from MMORPGs to Open World RPGs and Open World Survival Games, which for simplicity's sake I am going to lump together. I could also have linked a bunch of articles on that but I'm going to stick to my personal experience and some general observations because why do proper research when you can just wing it? That's how all the best columnists do it, anyway.

It seems hard to argue that these kinds of games, gacha or otherwise, haven't largely eaten the MMORPG sector's lunch. Still  as Sony/NCSoft's announcement of the in-development Horizon MMORPG, Steel Frontiers, proves, there is still a degree of interest in and commitment to the genre outside of its established, specialist niche market. MassivelyOP, who always nitpick over genre tags, were very keen to point out the acronym "MMORPG" appears right there in the title screen. 

And it is something worth mentioning. A lot of developers and publishers in recent years have gone out of their way to call their games anything but MMORPGs, believing to do so would harm their chances in the wider market.

Is that true? No idea. How would I know? Certainly, every new AAA game that claims to be an MMORPG seems to attract a million players on launch day. But then 90% of them are gone in a month and the rest a month after that. 

Was it because the games weren't MMORPG enough? Too MMORPG? Just not very good? Or were most of those people only there because it was the Big New Thing and a Thing can only be Big and New for so long?

Search me. No idea. And neither do the devs, apparently, because it keeps on happening.

What I can say, though, is that the naming of things is important. We should all know that as fantasy fans. To know a thing's name is to control it. 

Why, though? Why does a name, a true name, hold so much power?

It's all about authenticity, isn't it? That elusive, nebulous, indefinable quality that we know when we feel it. The Massively editorial team knows when a game is an MMORPG, regardless of what the press release they just received tells them. Just like we all know an NPC we're listening to was voiced by a human, not by AI. 

Except, do we? I can't help but think of the old Coke vs Pepsi test. That wasn't a notional thought experiment. It wasn't even something set up in some side-room in a University somewhere. It was an actual, physical test you or I could try for ourselves, when we went into town to buy an album or some new trainers.

If you search "Pepsi Challenge" you'll get the idea it only happened in America but I remember seeing the van parked in the shopping precinct near the bus and railway station in a city where I lived. I just can't remember which city... 

I didn't try it myself but I was always absolutely certain I could tell the difference. Pepsi is a lot sweeter than Coke, to my taste at least. Now, if it had been Coke vs Canada Dry, my all-time favorite cola, I'm not so sure. 

Which is kind of the point. Maybe I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi. Certainly, to me, they don't really taste all that similar. Between Coke and Canada Dry cola, though? Those two are so close I wouldn't like to put money on it.

Whether I can tell or not, though, I think I know. Do I want to put it to the test? Not really. Why would I want to find out I was wrong? How would that make my life any better?

I have listened to a lot of music in my life and until very recently all of it was made by humans. There wasn't really any other option. Despite that intense and continued exposure, I don't doubt that, like 97% of the 9,000 people Ipsos tested for Deezer, I would not reliably be able to differentiate between music produced by AI and music produced by humans.

Mrs Bhagpuss says she can. She really likes the music I've made with AI but she says it all sounds "pink". She can hear the pinkness in it the way some people see auras. I cannot hear the pinkness. I did think about playing her something extremely similar that was made by humans to see if she still thought it sounded pink but that's an experiment that's going to stay firmly in my thoughts only.

She also says the vocals sound "too perfect".  I hadn't noticed that but after she pointed it out... I still couldn't hear it. What I think I can hear is the AI being imperfect on purpose sometimes, which isn't the same thing at all. And I certainly couldn't pick an AI singer out of an audio line-up based on perceived flaws.

But then, the AI vocals I'm listening to, the ones in the songs I've caused to be made, like a Renaissance artist overseeing a workshop filled with talented but anonymous craftsmen, are my vocals. The imperfections are frequently my imperfections, replicated as though they were intended.

I remember Tipa, who also uses Suno, mentioning a while ago that, while she liked the music she made with the software, she hadn't found much she wanted to listen to by anyone else there. I'd go further than that. I haven't heard anything there that I haven't found intensely irritating. The app defaults to playing the next tune on some playlist or other if you don't stop it, so I've been forced to hear snippets of lots of AI tunes and there hasn't been a single one I haven't almost broken the keyboard trying to silence.

But is that because they don't sound like they were made by humans or because they're just terrible songs? I could do much the same on YouTube and many of the tunes would be "authentic". They'd just be awful. A lot of people who can't play an instrument or sing also have terrible taste in music. Suno lets them share their lack of talent with the world, too. AI is really egalitarian that way.

What are we really lookng for when we listen to music or look at images or play video games, anyway? Authenticity or entertainment? Is a real, bad thing better than an artificial, good thing? And anyway, what even is authenticity?

At the moment I prefer Open World RPGs to MMORPGs and I prefer Eastern games to Western games. I'm not saying this is a permanent change or even a lasting one. It's a snapshot, like all preferences. It may stick or it may slide.

Looking at that preference as objectively as a person can observe a subjective preference of their own, I'd question some of the assumed positions on authenticity that come up repeatedly when games and especially RPGs are being discussed. There's long been a trend in the discourse over automation. It predates any queasiness over the use of generative AI, although that does seem to have intensified the and polarized the debate considerably.

MMO players in the West have tended to react very negatively to many of the things that are currently drawing me towards both open world RPGs and mobile ports and which a few years ago led me to appreciate a number of imported games that were calling themselves MMORPGs.  

One day I'll write a proper post about why I like these sorts of games but for now, here are a few of the more obvious reasons. 


 

I like the brighter colors and the flatter surfaces of the graphics, for a start. I like the cleaner textures. A lot of older or more traditional MMORPGs look gritty, somehow. Dirty, even. I can deal with that look but I'd rather not have to.

I like the stories, which seem a lot more modern and relatable than those in Western games. The characters are younger and more enthusiastic. The themes are stronger; the emotions clearer. 

There's a tendency to call them "anime" games but they could as easily be called "YA" games instead. I read a lot of YA novels (The acronym stands for Young Adult, marketing-speak for what publishers used to call "teen fiction".) and the characters in many of the games I'm now darting between remind me very much of the ones I meet in those books.

Ironically, these games, clearly aimed at a younger demographic than the traditional Western MMORPG, also tend to have a lot more time and respect for older characters. In most of the MMORPGs I've played, the characters are much of a muchness when it comes to age. 

The Elves all live forever so they're ageless. The dwarves are all old even if they're young. The humans are inevitably somewhere in their 30s or 40s. The anthropomorphic races (And the gnomes.) tend to be child-like. Mostly, though, unless a character has to be a specific age for a plot point, age barely even rates a mention.

The open world rpgs and anime games give me stories across the full age range, from small children to the elderly. And those stories frequently reflect the kinds of concerns real people in those age ranges would have. It's not all gods and mosnters. Sometimes it's homework or rivalries at work or the way your hip doesn't want to let you climb the stairs like you used to.

That feels more authentic to me but I'm betting it's a black mark against authenticity for anyone looking for the traditional, high fantasy MMORPG experience. Still, a lack of authenticity in the story is nothing compared to what happens in the gameplay. 

As I said at the start of the post, I bounced off Honkai Star Rail partly because I found the combat too much like hard work. I dropped Genshin Impact because I literally couldn't beat a boss to carry on with the story. Not all of these games have Combat For Babies enabled. Just the ones I like.

After a quarter of a century and more, I think I can say I'm officially over finding combat in MMORPGs fun for its own sake. I never liked it that much but it did used to have its moments. Now, it's almost always a means to an end. The easier it is, the better I like it. I like one-shotting mobs. All of them, if possible.

The received wisdom is that making combat too easy turns players off. They get bored and go somewhere else if the challenge isn't there. Not me. I get bored and go somewhere else if the challenge is there. One of the things I like best about BP:SR is the auto-combat. I use it in every fight. It's even better than one-shotting mobs because I don't even have to press a key.

Except I do press some keys, sometimes, because that's fun, too. I dodge a bit now and then. Jump about. Change position. Not sure if it makes any difference but it makes me feel like I'm involved. Because you want to feel like you're doing something, don't you? You just don't always want it to be true. 

Authenticity is in your head. There may be an objective reality out there but you do not have access to it. You think Coke tastes better than Pepsi because your eyes tell you so when you see the label on the bottle. Your taste buds have no say in it.  

That NPC you hear, the one that sounds so flat and uninflected? It might be AI. Or it might be a voice actor who isn't doing such a great job. That song you like? The one that came up on that auto-generated playlist that's by someone you never heard of before. Are you sure it's a real person singing? 

Yes, you know. Of course you know. But how are you ever going to know?

And what about the fun you had, playing that game?  No, wait...   

I won't say the fun you had. You may not have had that fun. I'll say what about the fun I had, playing that game where the AI (Different kind of AI, of course. The old, good kind.) did all the fighting for me. It even did the running, there and back. All I had to do was take the quest and hand it in. Did I really have fun or was I just imagining it?

Maybe I was having more fun all those times I spent an hour trying to beat some stupid boss in a Guild Wars 2 Living World instance. One of those times I lost so often all my armor fell off and I had to give up and leave. That time I had a headache for an hour afterwards. When I felt like uninstalling the damn game, I hated it so much. 

That was some authentic gameplay there, right?

Yeah, I don't miss any of that. What is authentic isn't the experience but  how I feel about it. If the game feels like it was fun, it was fun. If the song sounds good, it's good. If the voice acting is convincing, it's convincing. 

And that would appear to be why I prefer the games I prefer just now. They're authentically entertaining. Whether they're any good...

Well, that's an entirely different question. 

13 comments:

  1. One of the things about these Chinese gacha-esque open world games is that they seem intent on making the combat fairly easy. I base this on hanging out in the Hoyoverse website and stuff, where they get complaints about content being too hard becuase it 'causes stress' for the players.

    Or at least that is my take based on just peering in and eavesdropping on conversations.

    As for the use of AI, I certainly don't care. Ideally developers would use human voice actors for the major roles and lean on AI voices for the various barks and background voices.

    Yeah it sucks for voice actors to lose the work, but on the other hand I get tired of characters from games all sounding the same based on the VA flavor of the month. With men it used to be Nolan North, now it's Troy Baker. With women it was Jennifer Hale and now it is Ashly Burch. I do LIKE all these people and Burch in particular doesn't always sound the same. Tiny Tina and Alloy sound very different. But Troy Baker always sounds like Troy Baker to me; ditto Nolan North.

    Ahem, anyway getting back on track... a big publisher like Sony or MS doesn't have to use AI, but if some indie dev trying to add some voices to their game and they don't have the budget to hire a human, I'm fine with them going with AI.

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  2. Oh and as long as I'm taking over your comment section. I remember Sid Meier's CPU Back on the 3DO consoles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.P.U._Bach

    Was this the first AI generated music!?

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    1. That's a very interesting link. 1994! I'm always curious about how far supposedly "new" trends go back in reality. It's often much further than you think. In the early '90s, when I was working for British Telecom, they tried to launch a videophone. It was a flopbecause it turned out phone users didn't want to have to make themselves look presentable before making or answering a phone call. That was clearly only a few years too early, because a decade or so later everyone was Skyping on laptops but the really susrprisong thing I learned while the push for videophones was going on was that there were similar two-way video phones in the 1960s. No-one really wanted them then, either.
      Car phones go back even farther, to the 1940s.

      The trouble with "AI", of course, is that we've been using the term for all kinds of things for a very long time. Arguably, all software is, by definition, Artificial Intelligence. 1994 sounds really early for music created without direct human input but I just googled the earliest instance of anything similar and apparently it was in the 1950s! There's a Wikipedia page on it if you're interested.

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    2. Wow, the 1950s! Thanks for the link!

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  3. I can tell the difference between an AI song, such as Breaking Rust's Walk My Walk, and a real one. The song sounds like, well, word salad: throw out a bunch of lyrics that are what seem to be popular (Jelly Roll seems to be a big influence), along with a beat extremely reminiscent of a mashup of several popular songs (again, a heavy dose Jelly Roll), and voila! It reminds me of the 80s bands that were chasing the Led Zeppelin sound, culminating in Kingdom Come (whom Jimmy Page derisively called "Kingdom Clone") before Grunge came in and pulled the rug out from under them.

    I guess to my mind it means that AI generated songs can only follow trends, not create new ones.

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    1. Answering that would take a whole post but just to hit the highlights...

      I almost included a paragraph making it plain I wasn't talking about the lyrics. AI lyrics that haven't at least been edited by a human are pretty easy to spot. That said, a lot of human-created lyrics are very poor too, so even there it won't always be certain. Still, AI lyricists have a long way to go yet. I was talking about the sonics. Another AI or just a good old software program can reliably tell AI music from authentic instruments just by analyzing the frequencies but as that survey shows, humans can't. Possibly a trained professional might but a regular music-loving listener? No chance.

      As for originality... come on! You read my music posts! One of the regular themes of those since I started, back before any of us had heard any AI music, has always been that *nothing* is original any more. It all reminds me of something, often of something very specific. Half the tracks I share have been made by people deliberately trying to sound like something else they admire or envy and the other half sound like it despite the artist's' best efforts. To sound original these days you have to be so niche or extreme that what you're doing is barely recognizeable as music to anyone outside your clique.

      The question should never be "Is this original?" It should only be "Is this any good?" Or even "Do I like it?"

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    2. It's not a matter of originality per se --the nothing new under the sun thing-- but more a matter of what is trendy and popular. People who put out AI music designed for consumption follow trends instead of forging their own path. "All that crap sounds the same" is what people (frequently parents) say about music their kids listen to, but given that music companies have spent decades trying to craft bands and music that will absolutely succeed all the time it's no surprise that they'll embrace AI music if it means complete and total control over every aspect of the music.

      This is a trend that's been a long time coming. From replacing musicians in bands (session musicians to outright replacement) to make the band sound better to recording musicians with separate mics to mix them more effectively to utilizing software such as Pro Tools to "fix" problems and quirks with a particular musician's sound, replacing everybody with an AI is a music company's wet dream. Until people want to actually see the band in concert, I guess, but then again there's Hatsune Miku.

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  4. Lot of little things in there I could pick up on. Howevere, combat in MMOs is the one I have the firmest opinion on. In general, it should be pretty easy. For me, there is a tradeoff between combat that is engaging as a challenge in of itself and the ability to explore a world. For example, there is a good reason few fighting games have a open world for you to wander around in. There are games that are kind of in the middle, like Devil May Cry, that I enjoy for having solid combat mixed with limited exploration. MMOs, on the other hand, I want to be on the opposite end of the spectrum from Street Fighter.

    In a MMO I want a world that is fun to explore, first and foremost. I want to feel like I am visiting a digitally rendered alternate universe. Having to stop every ten feet to enage in genuinely challenging combat is absolutely the last thing I want to do on my way to see what's at the top of a random hill. I also play MMOs largely to relax, and so my patience for stress when I play them is pretty low.

    That said, I also dislike any MMO where the combat is so easy it's almost impossible to die while out and about. If I head into the middle of an orc camp armed with a loincloth and a banana, I do want to at least need to run for my life. So I basically want combat that is easy enough that it doesn't hamper my exploration, but hard enough that if I do something incredibly stupid I can still get killed. That should give any potential developer enough information to have no f-ing clue what I want . . .

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    1. I agree with pretty much all of that. I think there's a sweet spot that the best developers know exists, where the player has the illusion of risk and challenge without actually finding themselves impeded, delayed or aggrivated in any way. The problem is that even the devs who want to offer that experience can't reliably supply it and the rest want to give us something we don't want at all.

      I should also probably say, if it isn't already obvious, that I tend to exaggerate for effect to some degree in posts like this. It's absolutely true that I don't like to be given a hard time by games and it's equally true that I generally don't equate "very easy" with "boring" the way some players do. Even so, I do like to have something to do now and again beyond hitting the space bar to move the dialog on. I played Blue Protocol for more than an hour or so after writing this post and it was 95% dialog. I really enjoyed it but even I was wondering if I was going to get to hit anything by the end.

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  5. I used to have a lot of friends who worked at LucasArts Games on games you would recognize; one of the artists there wrote a music generator called "Hollywood Medieval". It would continue generating vaguely fantasy tavern background music as long as you let it, without ever really repeating. I don't know how it worked. This was probably in the 1980s, and was the first time I'd heard non-human-generated music.

    As for Suno songs, I should mention that most of the songs I generate with it are also lifeless trash. There's two, maybe three, I really like. The others are unlistenable.

    That's really the human element to figure out what is good and what is not. AI can't provide the human element. We'll always need to be there to make it good.

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    1. One of the things somewhat holding me back from doing anything more with the songs I've made is that almost all of them are deeply embedded in the narratives of the original prose pieces I derived them from. With that background, they have a depth that I'm not sure they have on their own. It's almost as if I've written a whole bunch of songs for several musicals...

      And that sort of thing is probably not what's happening with most AI music, most of which seems to be very ad hoc and random. Then again, we are just starting to see the first commercial releases of AI songs by AI artists, fictional performers who have a fictional backstory. Once that really gets going, I guess we'll also start to see coherent bodies of work from non-existent artists and writers, which is going to be very weird indeed.

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  6. Just a quick thought: what if what we like is climbing a stair because there's a stair? I keep playing a shooter in which I'm terrible and won't get my way 90% of the time... And yet there is a stair (getting different weapons) and I am climbing it enough to have dropped thousands of hours in the game. Because it's not too difficult (I don't get sealclubbed often enough to disengage me) and not too easy, and I *am* climbing that stair because it's there and what other way might I waste my leisure time? To me, Bhagpuss loves climbing a stair made of stories. Finding out who next, where next, what next, which apparently Eastern somehow gacha online shared but not mixed (no mandatory human to human interactions) games do well.

    And it's fine. It's just playing.

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    1. That's a very good analogy. It does apply to stories in these open-ended games, where there's always a new turn of the stair but rarely do you come to an ending, but it also fits the whole RPG method of engagement-by-progression. It's most likely why so many games that really have no playing of roles involved still vaguely identify as RPGs; that never-ending stairway leading ever upwards that we all find so enticing.

      As well as playing narrative games to find out what happenes next, I play games where all I really do is upgrade my gear, even though I'm never going to need that extra power for anything. As you say, it's just playing.

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